The Keys to Unstoppable Sales Success with Jeff Shore

Anya:                Welcome to the show, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of The New Construction Marketing Podcast. I am beyond excited to introduce our guest for today, although I think he does not need an introduction. Welcome to the show, Jeff Shore.

Jeff Shore:        Thank you, Anya. I’m thrilled to be here. Thanks for doing this. It’s a great podcast you got going here.

Anya:                Thank you so much. Just trying to keep up with you! =) Jeff, usually we like to start off by giving a quick intro. So for those of us who may not be familiar with you….

Jeff Shore:        Sure.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. You know what? I’m a sales guy. I bleed sales blood. It’s been a little over 30 years for me in the new home sales business. And I just love it. It’s such a fascinating industry. To me, I’m always interested in the way that sales people sell. I’m increasingly interested in the way that buyers buy. If we can figure out the way that buyers want to buy, we can reverse engineer our sales presentation to make it easy for them to do that. And so that’s really my thing. I love buyer psychology. I love behavioral economics. I love the anatomy of a decision and how we break that down into its component parts and understand the way that people think. So it’s just such a great business.

Jeff Shore:        I sold for many years. Been in sales management for several years. National Sales Director for a very large home builder in the United States. And now for the last, almost coming up on 20 years, on my own, working with builders large and small all around the United States and Canada and some other parts of the world as well. And it’s great. It’s a great business. I’m a very blessed man.

Anya:                Yes you are. And thank you so much for continuing to bless us all with your teaching, because I think there’s definitely not enough of that in the new home industry. And I had the pleasure of sitting live a couple of times with one of your trainers, Amy O’Connor, and she’s just phenomenal.

Jeff Shore:        She’s great. Yeah.

Anya:                So it sounds like you’ve built quite a team around you.

Jeff Shore:        You know … although it’s funny because we’re a virtual company, right? … Did you just see my dog there in the background?

Anya:                I did. Well, you know what? I was going to say, don’t worry. My dog may burst in any second.

Jeff Shore:        And that’s the thing is, I’m working out of my house in my studio. We have an office studio, and we’ve blown it up. It’s under construction, so I had to come out into the back yard. So yeah, you’re gonna see my dog walking around.

Anya:                That’s the best scenery you could possibly imagine.

Anya:                California back yard. So where in California are you?

Jeff Shore:        I’m in a little Gold Rush town in between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe. So right at the base of the Sierra Nevada mountain range there’s a … called Highway 49, and it connects all these old Gold Rush towns that popped up in the 1850s. And now they’re bed-and-breakfasts and antique stores and restaurants, and that’s us. We live in this small little Gold Rush town called Newcastle, and it’s great. We love it.

Anya:                Yeah, it’s beautiful there. My husband and I had a pleasure of vacationing there a few times and actually if it tells you anything about us, one of our destinations was to go to Sierra Nevada Brewery.

Jeff Shore:        We have our share of microbreweries out here, there’s no question about it.

Anya:                Exactly. Well you know what, I wanted to ask you a question. So your new book is titled The Keys to Unstoppable Sales Success: 8 Mindsets of Elite High-Achievement Sales People. So why mindset? Why not sales? Why did you name it mindsets?

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. This is book number eight for me, and six of those books are on skillsets, and this is the second book I’ve written on mindset. And not six versus two because skill is more important. There’s just, that’s what people want. But there’s no question about it. In my opinion, the mindset is stronger, or more important than, the skillset. And if your mindset is off, then all the skillset in the world is not going to carry you through.

Jeff Shore:        So we really do have to look at it and constantly ask, “Well, where is our mindset? Are we in the right place?” And that’s particularly challenging in a sales position. Maybe even more so in a sales position where you’re dealing with a highly emotional buyer. We’re not selling copy machines to big corporations and a purchasing manager who’s got a budget that he’s got to work through, right? We’re selling a very important product to an emotion-based buyer. And that really changes things a lot. It really changes the dynamics of the interaction.

Jeff Shore:        So because of that, I look at it as a salesperson who is charged with giving out positive energy all day long. Well you can only give out that which you have inside. So if you’re going to give out positive energy all day long, you better be eating it for breakfast, you better be snacking on it throughout the day, and that’s really why I wrote the book. Just to be able to look at it and say, “Okay, just one different mindset at a time, how do I go back and revisit it?” And say, “What am I doing in the areas of confidence?” And, “What am I doing in the areas of positive energy, and those things that are going to collectively make up for a really great salesperson?”

Anya:                Absolutely. And I’m sure that being a salesperson is similar, in a way, to what you’re going through as a trainer, right? When you’re in front of a large audience and you’re giving and giving and giving, and you have to stay very positive and pumped up, and it’s very draining to be in front of that kind of audience. I’m sure it applies to you more so now even than being a salesperson.

Jeff Shore:        I don’t know. I don’t know about that. I respect what you were saying, and I get it, but I’m not sure that it applies more to me than it does to a salesperson. First of all, your point is very, very valid in the sense that we are influencers, right? That’s what I do for a living. If I’m going to go out and work with a company or with a salesperson or a sales manager, I can’t make them do anything. The best that I can do is influence.

Jeff Shore:        Well that’s what salespeople do. Salespeople can’t make somebody buy; the best they can do is be the best influencer that they can. But in many ways it’s more difficult, I think, for salespeople, in the sense that this decision that they’re asking their customer to make is highly personal, highly emotional. It requires a tremendous amount of commitment, a tremendous amount of trust. Those things are very, very difficult. We ought not take what we do lightly, because we’re asking customers to really put a lot of faith in us as sales professionals.

Jeff Shore:        But to your point, that means that we have to be our best self. Just like, even for you, when you’re starting up your podcast, when you’re getting it ready, when you’re going to interview a guest, the last I checked, the market for podcast hosts who are dull and boring and having a bad day and letting everybody see it is pretty weak, right? So that’s what we do. We are influencers, and so we have to make sure that our mindset is right in order to be effective in the influence overall.

Anya:                Yes. And I think what I meant by your role is even tougher is that, in a sales role a lot of times we’re influencing one-to-one, where you’re influencing one-to-many.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. Yeah, that’s true.

Anya:                So you’ve been very successful in what you do and been able to stay positive. And obviously you pay a lot of attention to the positivity and the mindset, and you talk about protecting your mindset in your book. So how do you protect your mindset? We all seem to have that Negative Nancy in the office around us. And obviously we’re all professionals. We have to work in a professional environment, so you can’t necessarily cut them out of your lives. So how do you suggest we handle somebody who’s being negative?

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. Your question actually tees this up really, really well, because the most important thing that we can do to be able to protect our positive mindset is to own that we can protect our positive mindset. So if we play this victim role, if we allow other people to dictate what our mindset is going to be like, we’re not doing ourselves or our customers or our company any favors at all. So there is a sense of ownership, right, from the very beginning. So I think we have to start by looking even at our rituals. What are we doing every day to protect our mindset?

Jeff Shore:        So for me, I’m not necessarily the biggest morning person in the world.  I started in the restaurant business way back in another lifetime ago. So I always just counted myself a night person. But I found those mornings to be so valuable. So what happens? In the morning I have my mindset rituals. I will not check my email first thing in the morning, and I will not read the news first thing in the morning. I won’t go on Facebook first in the morning. The first thing that I’m going to do is have mindset time, like right away. So I journal every day. I journal the very, very, first thing. It’s part of my ritual to be able to clear my mind, to make the commitments to myself before anything else happens.

Jeff Shore:        Because look, I get it. I mean I sold homes for many years, and even in the job that I have now there are always things that are coming at me that would take me out of my mindset, that would take me away from my positive mindset. If I haven’t made an intentional investment in myself, a commitment to myself very, very first thing in the morning, then I’m probably going to be living my day by default and allowing other people to dictate my mindset for me.

Anya:                That’s so important. You have to be intentional, you have to be committed, and if you’re not in charge of your own day, then the day’s just going to run you. And of course in this fun industry of new home sales, there’s a lot of things that come up throughout the day, and a lot of fires that we need to put out. So it can be very, very exhausting.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. I talk to many salespeople who even when they get to work the very first thing they do is fire up their email. And my question is, what are the chances that there’s a problem waiting for you on the email? And the answer, of course, is about 100%. So the very first act of your business day, then, is to adopt somebody else’s problem. And now your mindset is already shot. You’re a victim of what other people want from you. It’s not a productive way to begin your day. So I would just challenge anybody who’s listening right now to ask, “What are my rituals to own my mindset? How do I make sure I don’t invite somebody else to steal my mindset from me?”

Anya:                So important. And I think it’s very contagious, and your customers can always feel your emotions. And if you’re project that positive confidence then the customers will be more willing to trust you and go along with what you’re saying.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, I think that’s absolutely right. I think that confidence … We appreciate confidence, we gravitate towards confidence. When you look at the captain of the athletic team or politicians, they’re … We pay for confidence, and it’s absolutely contagious. That confidence becomes contagious. It’s not arrogance, but it’s confidence, and it becomes contagious. And I think if I’m sick, and I have a doctor who looks at me and says, “You know, there are a lot of different ways to treat this, and I googled it, so I’ve got some idea,” I’m walking out of that doctor’s office. I want someone who’s like, “This is what’s going on. This is the best course of action.” I need to hear that confidence from the professionals in my life, including the sales professionals in my life.

Anya:                So you brought up a great point about a borderline between confidence and arrogance. So what’s in your opinion separates confidence from arrogance? Because obviously we don’t want to be to the point where we’re turning people off. And how do we know if we’re being a little bit overly confident and coming off the wrong way?

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, that’s a great question. There’s a test there that you can apply both to yourself and as you’re seeing it in other people. And the test is what I would call the motive test. So I know that for me as an influencer, just like a salesperson, my motive is to make people confident in their decisions. It’s to help people to be confident in their decisions. And if they are confident in me and in my expertise, then they are more confident in adopting what it is that I have to say. But it’s the motive. My confidence is not for me, it’s for them. If my confidence is all about me, like, “Look at me. Look at me,” that’s when it’s arrogance.

Jeff Shore:        So it’s the motive test that’s going to tell us whether or not we are appropriately confident as those people around us need us to be, or whether we’re being arrogant because it’s now the Jeff Shore Show and I want all the attention. That’s the key.

Jeff Shore:        But I also think we can look at it and say, if we define confidence … And there are a lot of ways to define confidence, but for me I find that confidence is the intersection of two things: belief and mastery. Do I believe in what I’m doing and in the value that I bring to the people around me, and have I mastered the way in which I do it? If I believe very strongly and I’ve mastered my technique, then collectively what I have is confidence that I can then share with others in my life.

Anya:                And so speaking about belief. There are issues that come up. And something happens, maybe with multiple customers, where there’s some kind of issue that they’re bringing up, and suddenly your confidence and your belief in that builder starts to waiver.

Anya:                How do you as a salesperson then go on? How do you resell yourself on that product?  Because I think that tends to happen from time to time. Whether it’s the product or for whatever reason, you just lose that spark, that belief.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah. So a couple of thoughts here. One is that salespeople do tend to look at it and say, “Could I buy this product? If I’m selling homes, could I live in this home?” And I don’t think that’s a healthy question unless you’re actually a buyer and you’re actually thinking about buying a home. I’ve sold many, many homes in my day that I would not buy, because it wasn’t for me. It wasn’t my lifestyle, it wasn’t my need, it wasn’t my location, whatever it was. So homes are very personal things to those buyers.

Jeff Shore:        And so I think the first thing we have to do is take ourselves out of it. This is a very difficult thing to do for salespeople. It might be whether I’d buy this home, or it might be whether I’m struggling this specific objection. A perfect example is a salesperson who says, “Well, I would never buy a home that backs up to power lines.” And I look at that and I say, “So?” This is irrelevant information to me. I don’t need to know what you would buy and whether you would buy a home that backs up to power lines. The only question is, “The customer in front of you, is it the right home for them?”

Jeff Shore:        But when we project our values on other people, I don’t believe that we’re doing them any service at all. There are a lot of people out there that would look at it and say, “I’ve done the research. Would I rather not look at the power lines, or would I rather look at the ocean? Yes, I would. However, I’m a privacy-oriented person. I don’t want a two-story home looking into my backyard, and therefore I’ve decided that this home location against the power lines works for me.” That’s great. But if you have a salesperson who’s going in and saying, “Well, I would never live against power lines,” then we end up emitting that negative vibe, that negative energy. And I think that that’s where we make a huge mistake.

Jeff Shore:        So maybe it’s best to look at it this way. Value is like quality in the sense that when you look at quality, it’s not a seller word. It’s a buyer word. It’s only quality if the buyer thinks it’s quality. Same thing with value. Value is not a seller word; it’s a buyer word. My opinion of value as a salesperson, it doesn’t matter unless it applies to you. And ultimately, the customer gets to decide what value is. And I think we need to sort of just get it out of the way and get our own opinions off the table.

Anya:                Dropping some truth bombs there, Jeff.

Jeff Shore:        Well I’ve seen it happen. I’ve absolutely seen it happen. I’ve seen salespeople apologize for their product for some flaw that they perceive, or that others have perceived. And then what happens? Then we lower the customer’s confidence. We’re raising objections at that point that weren’t even there, but we’ve lowered the customer’s confidence. Look, there’s no such thing as a perfect home, right? Everybody is going to compromise somewhere in what it is that they’re buying. And if we’re bringing up what we perceive to be negative, or others perceive to be negative, we’re not doing the customer any favors at all.

Anya:                I think that’s one of the more challenging things that we can do as salespeople, right? To keep our own emotions out of it. I remember there was a situation when we had a house for sale that backed up to railroad tracks. And everyone of course said it was the worst home site on the planet. And the customer was so excited about this home site because it reminded them of their childhood, because their house was a house on the tracks.

Jeff Shore:        Right, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you see people … Every now and then you’ll see a community that’s sort of dead in the water. And then a sales manager will go out and hire a brand new salesperson who is just so excited to have a shot, and is too stupid to understand that people don’t want to buy homes against railroad tracks. They don’t even know any better. So what do they do? They sell homes against railroad tracks, right?

Jeff Shore:        There is a psychological battle that’s taking place for salespeople, and it’s called the availability bias. And the way that it works is, if I just heard 10 people in a row complain about their yard size then I absolutely believe that another person is also going to complain about yard size. And all they have to do is say, “Yard,” or Yar,” or “Y-,” and I’m already like, “Oh, no!” If I flinch at all, I’m showing the customer, I’m validating that whatever you’re worried about, you should be worried about. That’s a legitimate concern at that point.

Anya:                Yes. Yes, definitely. And it’s, sometimes it’s very tough especially if you’re selling in a difficult community where people are bringing the same objections over and over. And it’s tough not to get frustrated with it. And in your book you talk about, “You choose how to react.” So if a customer is being nasty to you, if the customer’s being negative, you choose how to react to that. And if you react in that same way, it’s not going to get you anywhere.

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, this is huge. This is huge. This is just so very, very important. We have to decide whether we’re going to be … Let’s look at it this way. If I am protecting my own mindset, if I’m intentional with … My rituals are there to make sure that I am my best self. I bring my best positive self into a conversation. If I come in completely positive, and the customer comes in completely negative, something interesting happens. Within about five minutes somebody changed. Either they came up, or you went down. But if they come in negative and I come in negative? Or even if I come in emotionally neutral, that conversation’s going south. So there is a unilateral decision for me and what I’m going to bring into the conversation that is, it’s not dependent on what the customer brings.

Jeff Shore:        I made that decision. I can choose what my attitude is going to be. Now if I apply principles of empathy in there and understand that my customers are going through one of the most difficult things that they will ever go through in their entire lifetime, well just think about that for a minute. I mean just think about those really trying times that people have in life, right? The death of a loved one, or going through a divorce. You’re just a different person in those times. You’re stressed out. And when I ask salespeople about this, most of them will admit that they are nicer people at cocktail parties or wedding receptions than they are when they walk into a car dealership.

Jeff Shore:        So what happens? We get in that high-stress environment and it changes our behavior. It doesn’t change our character; it changes our behavior. And salespeople admit that that’s what they are like when they are in that high-stress buying environment. But for some reason we are short to give our customer that same level of grace along those lines. If we understand that I have the control over all my own attitude, and what I’m seeing right here is not mean; it’s not snippy; it’s not snarky. You know what it is? It’s afraid. Our customer’s going through the emotion of fear and it manifests itself in a way that is oftentimes a little bit off-putting. If I can understand that, then I can reach out to them with empathy.

Anya:                It’s like they’re the psychologist.

Jeff Shore:        Yes, yes.

Anya:                … how many different things you have to be.

Jeff Shore:        You’re right. No, no, no. Every salesperson would have been well served to have majored in psychology in college, no question about it.

Anya:                Absolutely. So Jeff, in your own career, have you ever gotten to the point where you were dealing with a customer who was so negative and nasty that maybe there is a time where you say, “Listen, maybe we can’t meet your expectations. Maybe this isn’t for you,”

Jeff Shore:        Sure, yeah. There’s a line that can get crossed. And I’m not going to tolerate somebody dropping f-bombs in my direction. At that point, you’re right. It is probably just time to look at it and go, “You know what? This may not be the right place for you.” I can say that in a very kind and polite way. We don’t have to be abused. But also, I’d love to tell a quick story here.

Jeff Shore:        I remember in a sales office, and a gentleman came in, and he was kind of cold. I wouldn’t call him mean, necessarily, but he was cold. He was icy. And we were standing over a topo table, and I was showing him a row of homes that faced, across the street was called Crandall Creek. And it said right on the map, “Crandall Creek.” Well, one thing you needed to know about Crandall Creek is that there’s never any water in Crandall Creek. There’s never any dirt or foliage around Crandall Creek. It’s actually concrete, and it’s an overflow in case the Alameda River ever floods, okay? So it’s not a creek at all. But it used to be a creek, and so it’s called Crandall Creek.

Jeff Shore:        So I said to him at one point, said, “We’ve got these three homes here across from Crandall Creek.” And he looks at me and he goes, “Excuse me. That’s not a creek. It’s a ditch.” So now he had really turned negative. And I was sort of at a pressing side right there, and I looked at him and I go, “You know what? I think it depends on whether you’re buying a home or selling a home.” And he laughed just a little bit. And I went, “I gotcha. Okay? I gotcha. Now we’re okay. Now we’re okay.” And I came back, and I said, “I agree. It was once called Crandall Creek; that’s why it says Crandall Creek on the map.” I said, “The key point is that it’s open in front of you. I think that’s the point” I don’t remember the point I was trying to make.

Jeff Shore:        And from then on it was great. And now, in this point of the story I’m supposed to tell you that he bought a home from me and referred three other people. That did not happen. But I can tell you that his name was Kyle Phillips and his wife’s name is Jill Phillips, and their son is Aaron and their daughter is Kelsey. They line up with our kids together. We have vacationed together four times. We just had lunch together on Sunday afternoon. I met him 30 years ago, and we are still the best of friends today. But I want to point out, he’s one of the nicest guys that I’ve ever met on the planet, but when he came into that sales office his behavior was different than his character. He’s a character guy, but put him in a stress situation, and his behavior is going to change.

Anya:                And sometimes it’s almost like a challenge for me when I have somebody walk into the door like that, and “All right, how can I turn them around?”

Jeff Shore:        Yes, that’s the right mindset. That’s the right mindset. Great salespeople do this. They’re like, “What I’m seeing right now is not this person’s character; it’s their behavior. So, here we go.” How do we get them to … Look at it this way. If you only work with nice people, the corner on nice people is already taken. Everybody wants to work with the nice people. Go out of your way to take good care of the people who are not so nice, and they’re going to be your best friends. But I’m sure you’ve seen that in your own career.

Anya:                Absolutely, yes. So one thing I wanted to talk to you about from your book is, you talk about relaxation time. So I am a big person for relaxation. I think I go strong in the office, and my sales manager is always like, “Woo, you take all these vacations. I want to have your life.” I’m like, “You know what, I need to unplug. I need to get away, and then when I come back, so I can go 100% at it.” Because you talk in your book, it is physically, emotionally, it’s exhausting, and you definitely need that.

Anya:                So I think in our day and age, with the cellphone, with 24/7 accessibility, it’s a very, very difficult task for most people to unplug 100%. So even when we’re not going on vacation, just after the office hours. Whether it be your own manager calling you on your days off because there’s an emergency, or your customers trying to reach out to you knowing that you’re having your day off.

Anya:                So what are some of the best practices that we could utilize here that we … okay, I want to create that boundary. How do I do it without hurting people’s feelings? And especially, how do I say to my manager, “Back off. It’s my day off. I need a day off.”

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, yeah. This is such an important question. And when I look at … I think it’s important to understand, first of all, that effectiveness in sales requires a very, very sharp problem-solving ability. You have to be able to think quickly on your feet. Your short-term problem-solving skills are very, very important in sales, and great salespeople are excellent in the area of short-term problem solving. Short-term problem solving requires creativity. It requires these big bursts of creativity all throughout these conversations and all throughout the day. Well, that creative muscle needs its rest. Creativity works very much like a muscle. When you drain it, it gets tired and it doesn’t work as well.

Jeff Shore:        And we’ve seen this happen all the time, right? When we get really tired, it’s the end of the day, it’s the end of a long week, or whatever it is. We’re just, our brains are tired. We are just worn down. And if we do not disengage and allow the creative muscle to get some rest, then when we try to reengage we cannot be fully present. So the only way to do that is to be able to manage your life enough to be able to set up boundaries that would cause you to disengage.

Jeff Shore:        I am in the process right now of working through a very powerful, very difficult book called Deep Work, by Cal Newport. This is part of my quest to thin out distractions in my life and to look at it and say, “How can I … ?” I think that this phone can be just, it can be incredibly valuable. It can also be a distraction addiction after a time, where I just have to be looking at it all the time, even when I’m not working. I feel very much the same about email, that email is a distraction addiction, that I have to check it all the time. These are unhealthy behaviors, because they’re constantly keeping our brain engaged without any period of rest or relaxation at all. We have to be able to calm the mind. Even, in the workday, in small snippets. This is why I will read, oftentimes, for 10 minutes, just to get a mental snack. This is why I will oftentimes sit down and just breathe deep for a little bit.

Jeff Shore:        But it also means that for me, Jeff Shore, when I’m off, I’m off. I’m off, okay? And I don’t make any apologies. I don’t know if you can see over my shoulder right here. See that hammock? I use that hammock.

Anya:                I see, that’s right. Nice hammock.

Jeff Shore:        And for me, I have to engage in things that will cause me to be fully engaged, because the only way to fully disengage from something is to fully engage in something else. So when I’m out playing hockey, which I do frequently, I’m never on the ice, never on the ice thinking, “Now do I have to be in Scottsdale on Tuesday, or is it Dallas that I’m at.” That’s never what I’m thinking, right? I am so fully engaged in what I am doing at the moment that I’m allowed to completely step away from everything I had to think about at work. So now my discipline is to say, “Great. How do I do the same thing when I’m talking to my wife, Karen? Or when I’m going for a walk? When I’m reading? When I’m doing anything at all.”

Jeff Shore:        This idea of bouncing back and forth and bouncing back and forth through distraction to distraction is crippling. And it will not refresh us when we need it the most, when we need our creative brain.

Anya:                Yes. But it seems like it’s almost expected. I think it’s an expectation when they’re hiring you. And even when you’re going on vacation they say, “Oh, you’re going to bring the laptop with you, right?” Or with those phone calls. So is it realistic to be completely disengaged, do you think?

Jeff Shore:        I can’t make anybody’s value decision for them as to what they’re going allow to happen and not happen. I wouldn’t do it. I would not. Because my family has to be more important to me than my career. And because I have that priority in place, I think it makes me far more effective when I’m at my career. What I would say is, if you could put this much of a boundary on it, though, if you’re on a day off and you get a phone call, that’s a reactive action that you’re taking. If you have to take your reactive actions, I get that. What I’m not a big fan of is the proactive action. So when I’m thinking about work and when I’m catching up on work on my day off, these are things that I have control over.

Jeff Shore:        It’s one thing if I have to react to something, but when I’m proactively going out of my way to eat into my family, my hobbies, my rest, that’s when it becomes unhealthy. So I need to step away as much as I possibly can. And if that means that I need to actually figure out how to turn a phone off … I don’t think most people know how to turn their phone off. But if I can figure out how to turn the phone off even for a while, where I can have this dedicated time doing something, fully engaging in something else, I think it’s a beautiful thing.

Anya:                Yes. I think a lot of people find it as almost like a point of pride now that they’re 24/7.

Jeff Shore:        I think you’re right. Yeah, yeah. It’s dangerous, but I think you’re absolutely right.

Anya:                Yeah, so. Well Jeff, I’d like to thank you for being on today’s show. Can you tell us where we can pick up our copy of your book?

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, yeah. You can get anything you need on And there’s a store button there. Just click on that; it’ll take you to the book. You can also subscribe there to the podcast, The Buyer’s Mind. Every week we talk to a psychologist, behavioral economist, really top marketing people, people who are way smarter than I am, about the psychology of a purchase decision. And if you really want to know how to sell well, then just start by figuring out the way that your buyers want to buy.

Jeff Shore:        And then of course we do have our weekly newsletter. It’s free; just sign up. It’ll show up in your inbox, a little video from me every Saturday morning. Just a little pick-me-up to get you started into the selling weekend.

Anya:                Definitely. And I am a subscriber to your podcast. Love it. I listen to it all the time, and you guys definitely head on over in iTunes or Stitcher, whatever you’re listening. Subscribe right away. How do you have eight books in you?

Jeff Shore:        You know what? I usually live the book first and then write it afterwards, so that makes it so much easier. So I live the books, I teach the books, I write curriculum around the books, all before I write the book. So by the time I write the book, I’ve already lived it so much that it’s not as difficult. If you’re sitting down and you’re writing from scratch on something that you don’t really deeply know yet, then that research process is really, really long and arduous. I’m not suggesting that it’s a bad idea, but for me, I live the book first, and then I write the book.

Anya:                Makes sense. And if somebody wants to hang out with you, follow you on social, where is the best place to get you?

Jeff Shore:        Yeah, sure. If you go to we’ve got all of our social links there.

Anya:                Jeff, it’s been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. I feel like I’ve now made it officially. I’ve interviewed the Jeff Shore. Such a fan, and it really means a lot to me that you made an appearance. I know you’re a busy guy.

Jeff Shore:        Well, thank you. It’s a good podcast, it really is. Keep up the great work.

Anya:                Thank you, I appreciate it. I’ll talk to you soon.

Jeff Shore:        Thanks.

Anya:                Bye.


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